The Secret to Happiness

Hello friends. Welcome back to Growth Tails. Happiness is a goal we share but how we get it will differ. My guest today is Vanessa the Vivacious, who interviewed thousands of people as part of a global project to understand what makes people happy. Positive psychology tells us that aspects like relationships, meaning, and quality habits make a difference. But what does the person on the street think, literally? Vanessa's research finds it's more subjective than that. If happiness, and how to get more of it, interests you, reach out to me for a free coaching at peter@peteranthonyconsulting.com
In this conversation, Vanessa The Vivacious shares her journey of interviewing strangers about happiness, revealing that happiness is a subjective experience shaped by individual life stories. She discusses the emotional depth of these interactions, the importance of active listening, and how sharing personal stories can foster connection and healing. The conversation highlights the complexities of happiness, the impact of storytelling, and the significance of being present for others. In this conversation, Peter Anthony and Vanessa The Vivacious explore the themes of possibility, happiness, and personal growth. They discuss the impact of motivational figures like Les Brown, the importance of taking small steps towards goals, and the subjective nature of happiness. Vanessa shares her journey of self-discovery and the creation of her new project, Humanity 2.0, which aims to highlight the positive aspects of humanity. The conversation emphasizes the uniqueness of each individual's path to happiness and the importance of social connections. In this engaging conversation, Vanessa The Vivacious and Peter Anthony explore the complexities of relationships, the importance of personal growth, and the power of service to others. They discuss the significance of human connection, the art of listening, and the journey of podcasting as a means of storytelling. The dialogue emphasizes the beauty of humanity and happiness, encouraging listeners to reflect on their own lives and interactions with others.
Key takeaways:
Happiness is subjective and varies from person to person.
People often reflect deeply on their lives when asked about happiness.
Many individuals waste time worrying about things that never happen.
Sharing stories can create profound connections between people.
Active listening is crucial for meaningful conversations.
People often reveal more when they feel truly heard.
Hope can exist even in the most challenging circumstances.
The act of sharing unhappiness can lead to healing.
Reach out to Peter Anthony here:
- Follow Growth Tails for more insights on personal and professional growth.  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcVVQWlPEwwo9E7mV-XgIPL4Fs5wNqqA5
- Contact Peter Anthony for coaching and storytelling workshops: peter@peteranthonyconsulting.com or LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/peteranthonyconsulting/ or subscribe to my youtube to get updates on podcasts and coaching. 
Reach out to Vanessa here:
Email: vanessathevivacious@gmail.com
Phone Number: 2147941410
Website: https://www.vanessathevivacious.com
Podcast Link: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/humanity-2-0-podcast/id1765856669

Transcript

Peter Anthony (00:00)

G'day, Vanessa. Welcome to Growth Tails. You've interviewed thousands of people on happiness. And what did you find out? Was it a consistent thread or a consistent theme there?

Vanessa The Vivacious (00:06)

Yes.

You know, when I started the journey, I did not know what to find. And then as I went through the journey for four years, I found that the answer is never what you think it is from who it's going to come from. You could walk upon a stranger and think that you're going to receive a short answer, no answer, a long answer, and be completely thrown off by their response. So you just never know what you're going to get. But the recurrent answer was

that it was subjective to the human experience. So for everyone, their life experience is totally different. Their definition of happiness would be different because they've lived a different life and experienced different things. So it makes perfect sense that it's completely subjective. So your version of happiness and mine are totally different, but the fact is that there are some things, someone, or a culmination of things that make you happy, and that's all the difference. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (00:40)

Okay, okay.

Yeah, yeah. Were the people, so you, these were all strangers you're asking, right? You didn't know them. Like basically randomly walking up to people on the street and saying, are you happy? And if you are, why? Yeah, yeah. That's what I noticed. Cause I watched some of these interviews on YouTube and I thought that's really interesting. Cause you think it's a fairly confronting question in some ways, isn't it? Like, are you happy?

Vanessa The Vivacious (01:07)

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, and that was

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Peter Anthony (01:26)

If I was really unhappy when you asked me, I might get little bit angry. Did you get a bit of that when you were asking folks?

Vanessa The Vivacious (01:32)

sure. sure. my goodness. I remember this one woman that I approached once downtown at nighttime. I thought that she was going to give me a nice cute answer. She had a cute outfit on. She was on a date. And then I asked her and she started to tear up. And I thought, my God, I'm going to make her cry. But it's because you see people almost like they live their entire life in like a matter of moments before they answer because they're, you know, they're taking stock of their lives. And so they're trying to find a good answer.

Peter Anthony (01:41)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (02:00)

And I used to tell people, see like this little scrunch in their face, like this really, you know, your, brow scrunches because they're really trying to pinpoint whether they really are or not. And they just go through their whole life. And, she said that she, she really wished that, that she would not have cared about everything so hard. So she said that you waste a lot of time. you waste a lot of time worrying about things that never happen. Never.

Peter Anthony (02:19)

Alright.

Yeah, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (02:25)

And so she said she wasn't happy because she wasted so much time. And that's when she started to tear up and she was like, I spent my whole life worrying about stuff that never freaking happened. She worried that she wasn't gonna get the right job and so she wasn't happy with the job she had. She was worried that she wasn't gonna find the right man and so the time before she met him, she wasn't very happy or maybe she was happy for a small amount of time.

But the funny thing is that she was so right. She was so right that we worry so much about everything. And in that we miss all the good stuff and we spend a lot of time worrying about stuff that never happens. And I hugged her. I had to hug her because she was so right. But I just connected with her and I knew exactly what she meant. And I had to hug her. But yeah, so I made her cry. And then her date comes back and she just flipped the switch and she was happy again. So I don't know what that was.

Peter Anthony (03:01)

Yeah, yeah.

Yuck.

Vanessa The Vivacious (03:22)

But it was a moment, there are so many moments. And I have to say, because I did not create the Are You Happy? docu-series that was created by Athi Trupka, who runs a company called Happy Productions. And his whole journey started with him and a camera deciding to find the happiest person in the world. And so his brother and then a few friends, they traveled the world. They went to India, they went to Europe. I'm sure they probably went to Australia.

Peter Anthony (03:24)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (03:48)

And they just walked and stayed with various people and asked strangers, are you happy? And then they decided to open it up to the rest of the world and get other interviewers to do it. So they put it on social platforms. And at the end of the video, it would say, join, you know, join our team of interviewers. It still does to this very day. And so I found it one night and I was up in the middle of the night scrolling, you know, as you do. And I saw the end of this video, this really profound interview.

And it said, join us. And I said, why the hell not? So I thought, you know, this could, it'll either be a really good story to cocktail party one day, or it'll be something that's completely life changing. And it totally was life changing. So I joined them. And then I was, I was so excited that I started helping other people to film their things or helping them get answers to questions that they needed troubleshooting wise. And then one day I got tapped by him.

Peter Anthony (04:18)

Ha

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (04:41)

And I thought I was in trouble because that's, you know, that's what I do. So I have this meeting with him and I'm like, I'm so sorry for helping people. I didn't know. And he goes, no, no, no, you're not in trouble. I'm not trying to get mad at you. I'm trying to hire you because who the hell are you? He just came in here. And so I joined the team as the staff. I then became the second to him overseeing the entire project. So it was about 30 something thousand interviewers around the world.

Peter Anthony (04:54)

Hahaha

Vanessa The Vivacious (05:09)

and then at the time that I joined, think they had maybe like two, two million followers on tick-tock. So, when I left, it was at about almost 5 million and, Instagram blew up in the last two years, maybe. But, I traveled the country interviewing strangers about happiness and then for their other clients, because they work with commercial brands as well. And traveled America, working with car companies, working with life insurance companies, just all kinds of nonprofits.

So what they do is that they put a very positive spin on social content for brands and nonprofits, but ultimately it all came back to, you happy? And interviewing strangers about the most simple yet complex question and what they found, which was, I would say like 90 % of it is not force edited. They will just take the entire raw footage and they'll just cut together to shorten it the time to one minute.

but nothing else is force edited. It's all just raw footage and it was the best experience. I want to say that the first interview I'd ever done was at Christmas time. Funny enough, it's Christmas time. And I went to the mall and I lost my car too at the parking lot. But I interviewed a balloon artist and he said that he was so happy because he got to make kids happy making animals, you know.

And then I asked him, you know, what his message would be for the world. And he gave like a very delightful, positive message saying, you know, just do what you love and who cares about the rest and just really, really positive and convicted. You can tell when someone is really tapped into their truth. And it was beautiful. And he gave me two animals, which I had for a long time. So now I have to get anything that's balloon dog. have to have it. But after that interview went live on TikTok, it's still there.

there was a comment on a video where someone said, I wasn't planning to be here tomorrow. And then I saw this video and I think I'm going to stay. And that just like, my God, took my breath. it just, it just, it meant that this was more than just a video series on TikTok or on Instagram. And it really impacted people. So in addition to finding out that people were happy or were not happy and why,

and understanding that we could also share the unhappiness so other people could connect with them and heal from that. It was multifaceted and it was an experience not just for us interviewing strangers, but also for the people and what they took from that and what they walked away with from the experience, whether they were being interviewed or watching it. So it was a crazy four years and I still am in contact with them. I hosted the podcast for a couple of years, so that's on there as well. That's around. So it was busy.

Peter Anthony (07:37)

Wow, wow. So there were a few thousand vineses around the world.

Vanessa The Vivacious (07:43)

yeah, 30 some on thousand, yeah. With their phones, with their phones, yeah.

Peter Anthony (07:45)

So there was 30,000 people wandering around with a camera asking people if they're happy. right. Yeah, with their phones. If that's say 30,000 interviewers, there must be like hundreds of thousands of interviews, easily, easily.

Vanessa The Vivacious (07:59)

yeah. Easily. Yeah. And some of which maybe didn't air because the quality wasn't, you know, good. You couldn't hear it or or sometimes, you know, you'd press record and you'd forget to turn on your audio equipment. So it would just be like. Yeah, yeah. But walking up to strangers, mean, I've always done that my whole life, so it was second nature.

Peter Anthony (08:07)

Yeah, yeah.

I know that feeling. I know that feeling.

It's, it's interesting question, isn't it? Because I like, I like talking to strangers. And when I, when I was young, I did it a lot. And then when I got a bit older, I realized that some people felt confronted when, if you just spoke to them out of the blue, like I, I used to fly a lot. I travel a lot and I'd be coaching in different countries, running workshops in different countries. So I a lot of time in airport lounges. And whenever I was seen next to a stranger or I saw a stranger, like within speaking distance, I'd say like this strange thing, g'day, how you going?

Vanessa The Vivacious (08:28)

Hmm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Peter Anthony (08:51)

And most people would say, good, and you get an indication about whether they wanted to talk or not. And if they did, you'd have a chat. If not, they didn't. And you could meet, it was interesting how much people were willing to expose or reveal about themselves to a complete stranger. I remember one lady I spoke to on a flight from Sydney, I think it was to KL, Kuala Lumpur. And she basically told me her whole life story and didn't stop talking from...

Vanessa The Vivacious (09:02)

Hmm.

Hmm.

Peter Anthony (09:17)

left when we landed again. I'm thinking some people might just like to tell someone like how happy they are. Did you come across people that were unhappy?

Vanessa The Vivacious (09:23)

Yeah. hundreds. Yeah, definitely. Nobody's that happy unless you're Jan Brady or Peter Brady. I love the Brady Bunch. Yes. God, yes. You know what? I support Jan. I'm Team Jan all the way. Yeah, because she had it harder than everybody else, you know? Well, yeah. So I support Team Jan. Yeah, Marsha. It was always about Marsha. You know, Marsha, Marsha. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (09:32)

The Brady Bunch, are you a Brady Bunch fan too, are you? All right.

You're supporting Jan. All right.

Did she? Yeah. I liked, it was always about Marsha and Cindy was always just like, always a tack on. I liked, I liked, I liked Alice, the housekeeper.

Vanessa The Vivacious (09:53)

yes, underrated right? Just the best, best commentary.

Peter Anthony (09:55)

Yeah, underrated, underrated. kept that kept up because the rest of the family and there was Alice. There's also she had her partner was a butcher. I think was it Frank, the butcher?

Vanessa The Vivacious (10:04)

I, you know, I don't recall his name. Maybe it was the butcher. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (10:07)

I liked him too. He was like a very matter of fact, normal sort of guy. Because the family was very out there.

Vanessa The Vivacious (10:13)

Yeah, you don't see a whole lot with the mom though. There's not a whole lot of development there. That's interesting. The dad. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I think Alice is the best. You may, might be right about that, but she's, she's a wonderful.

Peter Anthony (10:18)

No, I think it's old school. Like she always looked, you know, like beautifully prepared and had the meals there with Alison. She's that very old school.

Yeah, she was my favorite. a consistent theme you would say, you would have watched, I watched, it was quite addictive. When I started watching, I wanted to watch more more more and more. And I found it really curious how different people's answers were and how, when they were happy. I remember there was one guy I watched it, I think this interview was in Paris. He was asking these Parisians if they were happy. And I thought that's a dangerous place to ask.

Vanessa The Vivacious (10:38)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean...

There was even people in Africa. had a guy, his name is Mishok and he's wonderful. He's a wonderful documentary filmmaker and he went out asking people all over Africa and those were some beautiful interviews. But was it Russia maybe or?

Peter Anthony (11:08)

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (11:09)

Some of them are somewhere farther and yeah, it's dangerous for them to do that. so of course we would always tell them to exercise good judgment. know, if it seems sketchy or even America, if you're in an area that you don't know and it's dark, don't be out there interviewing. Don't go by yourself. Go with a partner, please. Like we were very all about safety, but the sad ones, the sad ones, funny enough, had the most...

Peter Anthony (11:23)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (11:33)

views and the most commentary. my God, the saddest interview you'll ever find on there is about this homeless guy that gets interviewed and he talks about all this physical abuse that he went through and his family and how terrible they were and how he had to get out of there and he was homeless. And he said, hope, I can't remember exactly what he said, but to the effect of like, I hope, you one day someone loves me and I have a home. And I know he had, he had hope though, no matter how crushing his life currently was in that moment, he still had.

Peter Anthony (11:37)

Wow.

Vanessa The Vivacious (12:03)

the utmost hope that it'll get better. And that just broke the internet. It broke the internet. Anytime they post it, because they'll repost things, it breaks the internet. there were thousands of people trying to find him. And everyone's looking for him to try to help him out. And then eventually, somehow, we find him. And he says thanks, but no thanks. Doesn't want to help. No, he didn't. He was like...

Peter Anthony (12:23)

He didn't want the help. He didn't want the help.

Vanessa The Vivacious (12:28)

I'm, I have what I need and I'm going to have a good job soon. And I, he just turned everything down. They wanted to give him a home, a job money course. And he just said, no, I got it. I'll be all right. Which is like very, very opposite of what you thought, you know, would happen, but he just didn't want help. But, he saw all the messages and appreciated them. But, yeah, a lot of people thought that that was forced or there was a controversy of, you know, you should have left him alone, but then.

Peter Anthony (12:44)

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (12:56)

They asked him if he wanted to be interviewed and he said, okay. So he agreed to it. But then they kept rolling. And from how we taught people how to interview, we taught them to never force an interview, never force a question, never lead someone on because you're seeking an honest opinion and answer. So you would never try to push a certain direction that would be just wrong. Right. And we would train them to be quiet because

Peter Anthony (13:19)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (13:23)

people inherently want to talk over each other. you know, whether you mean to or not, you just want to fill that void of silence. You just want to. And so we trained folks to just stay quiet even after they finished their answer. And they would get uncomfortable. they would just keep talking and they just keep going on and on. But it was never forced. Nothing was ever staged.

Peter Anthony (13:44)

It's interesting you mentioned that that was the most watched, the most clicks, because I know my colleagues that work in news, they tell me that the bad news stories get more views than the good news stories do, which is why there's hardly any good news stories on cable TV or commercial television.

Vanessa The Vivacious (13:48)

Mm hmm.

Hmm.

Yeah. I mean, part of it is sensationalism, but another part of it, the good part of it is that people connect and they identify with things like that because everyone has some level of sadness at some point, whether it's really tragic trauma or something surface level. And even in the mental health space, same thing, same thing. I've known people that have been in certain facilities where they

Peter Anthony (14:09)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (14:26)

commented that they didn't get help from the doctors. They got help from the other patients because they could share their stories and connect. And that was the biggest help of all to know that you're not alone and that you can get better or maybe this guy has it worse than you do so you're going to be okay. Just being able to connect. means everything. And so I think that's why.

Peter Anthony (14:43)

Yeah.

It's interesting. Yeah. It is really interesting because it's, and I noticed that with friendships too, I'm a member of a big ocean swim group in Australia and we often get new people coming along. And so there's like, there's old schoolers like me that been in the group for like 12, 13 years and we know each other very well. But you notice as friendships develop, it's when you're sharing bad news or sad news.

Vanessa The Vivacious (15:06)

Hmm.

Peter Anthony (15:08)

with someone that then you realize, hey, this is, and they're being honest with you about how hard their lives are. That's when you realize that friendship has reached a deeper level, like when they share that with you, rather than all being happy, joy, and the unhappy and life's wonderful and I've got no problems and yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (15:12)

Hmm?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Right. Right. It's almost as though we have to connect with each other before we can celebrate each other. And the way to connect is to share those meaningful, important stories. So, yeah.

Peter Anthony (15:32)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And often, and this is something I had to learn too, particularly as a male, when I heard bad news, I wanted to fix it. Like if somebody was unhappy, I wanted to fix them and make them happier. But quite often, if they're unhappy or they were sad about something, all they really want to be to do is to care that they're unhappy, not do anything about it. Just listen and care and be there with them and just by itself, it's curative rather than having to like,

Vanessa The Vivacious (15:42)

Hmm.

Or listen. Yeah, people just want to do, Yeah.

Peter Anthony (16:01)

Flick the happy switch. Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (16:03)

Yeah, and you know, there's listening and then there's listening. You know, the first one, you're just listening, but the second one, you're actively listening, you know, and you're able to reflect on their words and say, you know, you mentioned this, blah, blah, blah, Like that means everything because that means you're really listening, but it also gives them the opportunity to.

Peter Anthony (16:14)

Yes.

Yeah, it does.

Vanessa The Vivacious (16:23)

to open up further and share something further. Sometimes people would share things that even they didn't think they were going to say. I can't tell you how many times I heard people say, my God, I had no idea I was gonna say that. And part of it was me. Part of it was me, me kind of asking follow up questions that are really meaningful because I understand the importance of a follow up question. But.

Peter Anthony (16:24)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (16:42)

It's so important. I took that job so seriously because of the fact that you're interacting with other human beings and you're helping them convey some sort of message or some sort of experience, but you want to do it justice. And so you don't just ask them, well, what's your favorite color? You know, you want to ask them more like, what is it? What is it that blue makes you feel? What do you, what does it make you think about? Things like that. So yes.

Peter Anthony (16:59)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting you talk about listening, Vanessa, because when I did my coaching degree, one of the things our lecturer told us, when you're coaching with someone, you should listen until you disappear. And initially, I didn't really understand what she meant. But what she meant was that listen, like give them like, transfer all of your attention onto them and listen until you and your staff and your opinions.

Vanessa The Vivacious (17:20)

Hmm.

Peter Anthony (17:31)

disappears, so you're just fully there for them. And then what she told us then, which is true, is that, and then you'll hear more when you disappear. Cause if all your stuff's in the way, when you're talking to somebody, like all your attitudes and opinions and biases and prejudices are in the way, you don't actually hear what they're saying. Cause all you want to do is wait for them to stop talking so you can make your, you know, great point. Right. I liked that. thought, it's, it's, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (17:31)

Hmm.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Right.

Right? Actively listening. It's important. It's hard, but it's important. When you get the hang of it, you're there.

Peter Anthony (17:57)

I find that when you're tired, it's easy. You can just listen until you disappear because you're too tired to respond.

Vanessa The Vivacious (18:02)

Right? Or you like you told all the stories you're done. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (18:06)

You told all the stories and you don't remember. I remember one of my great books I enjoyed growing up was a book called Catch 22 by Joseph Heller. I read it when I was about 15. I loved it. I loved that book. was like it changed my life and changed the way I thought about things. I remember he later in life, he said he and his wife went on a cruise together, one of them like a 10 day cruise of the thing was the Greek islands. And he said for the whole 10 days, they didn't talk to each other.

Vanessa The Vivacious (18:15)

Yeah, I know that.

Mm.

Peter Anthony (18:32)

And he said, because they had nothing left to say. They'd been together their entire lives, been together like in 60, 70 years. And he said, there's nothing left to say. We just enjoyed the islands. And then we came home, I thought, I'd find that hard, would you?

Vanessa The Vivacious (18:32)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm

yeah, mean, at first, okay, I know I've seen something to that extent, something about that idea of being so comfortable with someone that there's no reason to talk. And at first you think, that's so sad because there's literally nothing to say. But then when you think about it further, it's because, you know, they are so intertwined and they know each other so well that it's nothing but, you know, feeling and senses. And there's no words that are necessary because you are able to convey things back and forth without any of that. And that's really beautiful.

Peter Anthony (19:14)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can, you're just, you're just with that person, you're just walking with that person or just with them and if you said something, it would almost spoil the moment.

Vanessa The Vivacious (19:24)

Books like that are good and they're necessary, you know, and that's good that there are still authors out there that really challenge things and, you know, question ideas. So thank God for books. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (19:27)

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, thank God for books. It's interesting too, when you talk about that guy that was really unhappy, but he said he had hope. It reminds me of one of the guys I love listening to is Les Brown. You would have come across Les Brown. I love Les Brown. I came across Les Brown probably 20 years ago because I was going to a lot of like self-help stuff, a lot of like Tony Robbins and that sort of stuff.

Vanessa The Vivacious (19:43)

Mm.

Yo, I love him! my god, I'm a huge fan.

Mmm.

Sure. Sure.

Peter Anthony (20:01)

And I stumbled across Les Brown and he, he, he was in this, in this huge stadium, one of the speakers, this huge state, must've been like a hundred thousand people in this place, somewhere in the U S and, his whole story was about him growing up. And his theme was it's possible. It's possible. It's possible. No matter how bad it is. And he said, no matter how bad it is and how bad it gets, just keep reminding yourself it's possible. Right. And you think if you are feeling down and.

Vanessa The Vivacious (20:16)

Yes. Yes.

Mmm.

Peter Anthony (20:30)

and you're not happy, if you can just think, well, it's possible I can be happy again. It is possible. And that's all often you need to dig back out of the hole,

Vanessa The Vivacious (20:37)

Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely. I remember him saying, I remember him, I remember like hearing him on Apple, like I downloaded his stuff, but then also watching him on YouTube. don't even know how exactly I found him. And this was like 2020, I think. And he had said, you know, make a list of what you want, you know, and I think writing it's possible was one of those things at the bottom. So I had that list hanging up somewhere. I'm sure it's still around. But then he used to tell himself, shut up.

He would, you know, he would say like that anytime something negative came, he would just tell it to shut up. And it reminded me that I do the same thing sometimes because when I think negatively or when something comes up that I'm like, I can't do that. I'll just say, well, that's dumb. That's what I say for everything that's negative. that's dumb. I don't think that I'm to be good enough for these. That's dumb. know, I really shouldn't do that or say that because then I'll look too smart or too much of a no. That's dumb.

Why would you do that? That's dumb. So anything negative, I just say that's dumb. Anything I think, anything I do, yeah, that's dumb. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (21:36)

Yeah, that's them. Yeah.

That's dumb. Yeah. Yeah. And if you think of those dreams, think of those goals, we think of like what you've got in mind and think, well, if it's possible, that might give you enough hope to take the next steps towards it. And I think if you're on the journey, that's going to make you happier if you're moving towards that. Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (21:49)

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah, and listening to people like him, people that don't have an agenda, know, mean, Tony Robbins is one of the oldest right in that field. And some of stuff that he has is OK, but some stuff he has is kind of questionable. And it just it just varies. There are a lot of great people out there.

Peter Anthony (22:06)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I think Robbins was the first one to make it like a huge, I mean, he's come to Australia, he's run events here. I've gone to the fire walking experience twice, once with some friends and once a bit later when a good mate of mine was in trouble and I took him to that. I did the date with Destiny with him where you spend a week with him and a bunch of people. And a lot of it is great, but there are

Vanessa The Vivacious (22:25)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Well...

Peter Anthony (22:42)

there are some parts that can be quite, I guess, challenging. Like one of his favorite ideas is never leave the scene of a decision without taking massive action. Like, and I think, well, maybe massive action's a bit too hard. Like if I'm not feeling great about my life and I'm feeling really, I'm really struggling, I think the opposite, I think a tiny step might be what you need. Like a tiny step in the direction that you wanna go in. And that might be,

Vanessa The Vivacious (22:45)

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Peter Anthony (23:11)

more, more comforting and more enriching and more empowering than thinking I've got to take massive action. Cause maybe I'm not strong enough to take massive action. Maybe I'm feeling quite vulnerable and weak and I haven't got all my resources. So maybe just say it's possible and just taking a tiny step might be, and I keep taking tiny steps, might work a bit better. Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (23:21)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I think both work, both work. Sometimes big ones are necessary because it takes you out of the normal day to day. And then sometimes smaller ones are necessary because if you're really hurting, something really big can be really bad very quickly. Whereas something small and measurable can be fine. it's a gradual path, that's fine too.

Peter Anthony (23:39)

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, particularly if you're not feeling particularly strong, like you've got a really big challenge in your life, like relationship challenge, financial challenge, work challenge. You think sometimes you don't feel strong enough to take massive action and then you feel worse because I can't take massive action either, so I'm even worse off. think, well, let's just take some tiny steps. But one of the things I was really interested to ask you about, Vanessa, is I like to, in the coaching chair, I study a lot of positive psychology and

Vanessa The Vivacious (23:55)

Mmm

yeah.

Mm.

Peter Anthony (24:17)

There's a lot of happiness research in positive psychology. And one of the strongest markers of what's called self-reported happiness, which is people saying that they're happy, because you don't actually know if they're happy or not. This person says they're happy, why you happy? One of the highest markers is social connection and relationships of people that are happy. So if I'm happy, I'm happy because I've got either great interpersonal relationships, great friendships. Did you find that when you're interviewing people that...

Vanessa The Vivacious (24:20)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Peter Anthony (24:45)

relationships or other people made people happy, that can't be the reason.

Vanessa The Vivacious (24:50)

Do mean like, did relationships in my life make me happy at the same time or in their lives? Well, yeah, I mean, you had a lot of answers where they would talk about what makes them happy as their families and their significant others. so, yeah, there definitely was a comparable amount of people that would respond to saying relationships or family members that makes them super happy. For myself, I...

Peter Anthony (24:54)

In your life or in the people that you interviewed? Yeah, in their lives.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (25:16)

Funny enough, like totally opposite. mean, I was traveling a lot, but I was happy that I was traveling a lot because I didn't want to be at home. My spouse and I were just in two different areas of our lives. And so I was, I was happiest being away from home than I was being at home. But then, coming back from all of that, it gave a lot of perspective on what I needed and what I wanted and what I deserved. And, just experiencing so many different human experiences through other people.

Peter Anthony (25:29)

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (25:41)

And hearing these stories, only made me stronger in understanding that, you know, there are things that are more complex than we know. You we can be married or not married, but there's more to it than that. There's more to it to what you need and what you don't need and what you want and what you are willing to put up with. So I learned a lot outside of the home. And when I came back home, we had a conversation about what that looks like in the future and how we can best

coexist. And so for us, it made sense that after I think we'd been together about 15 years and we'd been married 11 years, and we decided that we would be best to live in separate areas. And so he is moving to Colorado. And he's a he's a big Buddhist person. And so he wants to live, you know, near the what are they called? The places, the temples, right?

Peter Anthony (26:25)

Yeah.

Alright.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (26:35)

So he wants to live closer to the temples and live on this open land. And I'm happy for him. I'm so happy for him that he gets to be in the perfect place for him. And I myself get to stay here and turn my house into a production studio and go out and film things and work with my orchestra, work my day job and just do nothing but create and just have a really good living experience.

Peter Anthony (26:57)

So do you think when you're out there asking all these thousands of people, you happy? Maybe you're asking yourself that question, are you happy? You're asking, so it was like you were asking yourself, are you happy or how to be happy? And you came back with the answer.

Vanessa The Vivacious (27:00)

Hmm. 100%. You you you constantly.

Yeah, maybe. But again, I will I will say it like day in and day out. If anyone asked me like, what was the answer? And I'll say all the time, it is completely subjective to your experience. First and foremost, because because no no one answer was exactly the same and no one had, you know, the same response. It was completely subjective to them. And it's kind of funny because you really are hoping that there's one answer, but there isn't. Everyone is so complex. There is not one answer, but the

Peter Anthony (27:22)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That's true.

Vanessa The Vivacious (27:40)

beautiful part is that there's not one answer. That there's not a prescription. There's not a formula. There is not. It's so complex and so designed to your specification. I look at medicines. There are now medicines that are made for you specifically. can... Yeah. Right.

Peter Anthony (28:02)

yeah, there's a lot of herbal practitioners that will mix a dose just for you. It'll taste horrific, but it'll be just for you. You think this must be healthy for me because it tastes so bad.

Vanessa The Vivacious (28:09)

Right, right. Down the hatch. Right. So all of the happiness journey, I never thought that it would end, but it did. know, after four years of it, guess like both the company and I both had moments where I needed to take a step away. I took five months off and then they, you

continued forward and then I decided to take all of the unused footage that I had, because I have thousands of hours of footage, and I decided to cut it down into a new project. So my thing is that humanity is in a difficult place and to remind humanity that we are human and that there are a lot of positive moments in humanity just as much as the negative ones.

that could be healing and encouraging and remind us of our own humanity and to preserve and if not promote it. So there were a billion human moments in the footage. So my new project, which is Humanity 2.0 is taking that footage and cutting down to those really human moments to share that on the platforms. So there's a video series and then there's a podcast interviewing other humans about their humanity and what they see in the future. So.

Peter Anthony (29:21)

right. Is it the same people you interviewed on happiness? But it's more, they're talking more about humanity. Is that how it works? Yeah, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (29:30)

Yes. So the video series will be footage from those interviews because there is like, you know, when you talk to someone, it spins off into a tangent. And so they cut out what's not about happiness. Right. So I have like tons of footage that never saw the light of day because it was on things that are not about happiness, but they are so beautiful and raw. And there are things that people should see because it reminds you that there are good humans out there or that there are other humans that you can connect with and understand.

Peter Anthony (29:42)

okay.

Vanessa The Vivacious (29:57)

you know, feel understand yourself by proxy. So that video series I'm working on, hopefully, hopefully it'll be done before the new year. And then the podcast, I just started interviewing for it. And so with that, I'm interviewing everyone and anyone. So I'm reaching out to people that I've interviewed for happiness in the past, and then also people that I come across. And so that will be an interview that's both video and audio on Riverside.

Peter Anthony (30:23)

like the Riverside.

Vanessa The Vivacious (30:24)

Yeah, but it's Humanity 2.0 podcast and Humanity 2.0. So it'll be on, it's all under my name, all under at Vanessa the Vivacious, because I have my own production company, which is Vanessa the Vivacious Productions. And then it'll all just kind of be housed under that company. So that way I, you know, one stop shop.

Peter Anthony (30:27)

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay. I'm going to put all those, all those links in the show notes for people that want to reach out. I that'd be really interesting to talk, to watch. Yeah. Yeah. To watch real people. It's interesting. just circle back a moment. You mentioned that one of the key things you learned was that happiness was very unique. It was very individual to each person. It's interesting that that was a big learning curve I had when I was coaching people. Cause I spend probably half of my week.

Vanessa The Vivacious (30:45)

Yeah.

I'm so excited.

Hmm. Subjective.

Peter Anthony (31:08)

sitting on Zoom or on Teams coaching people in different parts of the world. And I came from a training and workshop background. So I was always in workshops, teaching people things in workshops. And I thought coaching was teaching. I thought it was like teaching something to somebody. What I realized after doing coaching psychology was that it's not so much, I'm going to teach you something or give you something. It's going to be, I'm going to help you find what you already got. Right.

Vanessa The Vivacious (31:11)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Peter Anthony (31:38)

and use coaching tools to ask questions and use like psychometrics and personality assessments and pieces like that, help you understand who you really are. Because often the people I find that are most off track that I'm working with, whether it's off track emotionally or physically or commercially or professionally, it's because they're not tapping into who they really are. They're tapping into somebody else. they're running someone else's life or someone else's agenda or someone else's goals.

Vanessa The Vivacious (31:47)

Yeah.

Hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Peter Anthony (32:05)

and they reach a stage where they think, hold up, that's actually not my goals. That's actually not what I want. That's what somebody else wants, which is great for them, right? It's great for them. Like if I'm in a company and the boss is happy with me because I'm helping her achieve all her goals, great for her, but maybe not great for me, or maybe there's things I'm, and often it's been so long since we've done what makes us really happy. We forget what it is. You forget what happiness is.

Vanessa The Vivacious (32:10)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes, yes. And it feels like, it feels like there's almost like a Renaissance going on right now. If you just look around, you find, well, more even, more even like what makes you happy, like a creativity kind of boom, you know, you see so much more content creators that have never created anything in their lives. Just making music, making art, doing all kinds I went to a show last night of a young group of boys who started a, they started a Mexican.

Peter Anthony (32:36)

happiness renaissance.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (32:55)

alternative indie band and they played in downtown Dallas and it was really good. But, you know, they just decided they wanted to play music and they'd never played music in their lives, but they just picked it up. So yeah, so your coaching sounds really awesome because it feels almost like you're one of the dinosaur people excavating bones, you know, versus just helping people fit the mold because that's awful. Fitting the mold is not good.

Peter Anthony (33:06)

Yeah, and it worked.

It's exactly, it's the opposite of what Robbins would do. Like with the Robbins event, you'd go to the event, you'd say, okay, you're unhappy or you won't help, whatever. Here's step one, step two, step three, step four. Like here's all these things to do, right? And the whole room, a of thousand people doing exactly the same thing, right? And all walking on fire and chanting and making massive action and everything else. And that feels good. And when you're in the room, it feels great, right? You get really pumped up and you feel great. Don't get me wrong, it has positive impacts.

Vanessa The Vivacious (33:26)

Mm.

Mm.

Yeah.

Sure.

Peter Anthony (33:47)

But if you would like to be happier than where you are and you're feeling, you get a sense that, know what, I'm less happy than I think I deserve to be. I'd like to explore that. I can't tell Vanessa how to be happy, right? I can't say, because I don't know you, right? And even if I knew you, couldn't say how to be happy. Because only you know what lights you up, like what makes you feel great. Like who makes you feel great? What makes you feel great? Only you know that.

Vanessa The Vivacious (33:57)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Peter Anthony (34:13)

my job would be to help you find what that is and also help you understand it's okay to go for it. It's actually more than okay. It's your role in this world to deliver your unique piece to the whole global puzzle, right? And that's what makes you happy. That's what makes the world a better place because no one can deliver it like you can. So let's find out what it is and let's help you celebrate it and enjoy it and help the world enjoy your

Vanessa The Vivacious (34:19)

Hmm

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Peter Anthony (34:39)

your happiness too in whatever you choose to do. That works better than say, let's take massive action and fill in the workbook and here's the three steps and the five causes and it's all these things.

Vanessa The Vivacious (34:42)

Yeah.

Right. Yeah, very formulaic.

Peter Anthony (34:53)

It's very formulaic and it's interesting. There's a bunch of us that do this sort of work and it came off the back of Carl Jung, who obviously we all know. And what he suggested to us way back then was he said, and I love the way he said this, he said, there's an inner hero in you, an inner hero in Vanessa, that's beckoning you on a call to adventure. There's an inner Vanessa, right, that's beckoning you that say, hey, let's go on an adventure, like inner version of you, right?

Vanessa The Vivacious (35:00)

Yep.

Hmm?

Peter Anthony (35:18)

And only you can hear that call, and only you know what that is, only you feel that, right? And when you tap into that, that's what I find, that's when you're happiest, I'm happiest, and that's when the world gets the benefit of your unique contribution, It's really cool, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (35:18)

Hmm.

Mmm.

Right, right. And I think that we don't, we don't focus on the, the in-between. So, so when you find that point and you listen to that call and you're doing it, you're off doing it. There's also a point where you get tired and you stop doing it and it's okay to stop doing it and understand that you didn't fail. You know, you're just a little tired. You need to catch your wind. You're, you're not 22 anymore. You're 40 or 50 or, know, it's okay. It's.

Peter Anthony (35:48)

Hahaha

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It can get exhausting because when you get caught up in it, you get consumed by it and you don't want to sleep and don't do anything else. You're just like, right, but that's a great way to be there,

Vanessa The Vivacious (36:09)

sure. I, I'm good. I edited videos all night long into the next day. You know, I would not sleep until the next day all the time. I do that every now and then, but now I kind of sleep early enough and then just wake up at two in the morning to do it. So I kind of plan it out a little bit better. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (36:18)

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it can change. I I spoke to an expert a couple of weeks ago on how to build your ideal day. And one of the things he was saying was that ideal day is different for all of us, which is obviously true. But also it can vary. Like your ideal day in summer can be different than your ideal day in winter. Like we both talked earlier before we got on air about buying Christmas decorations, right? Ideal day might be, we're gonna do that all year, right? Right.

Vanessa The Vivacious (36:32)

Hmm.

Sir.

Yeah.

Right. Right. Yesterday, I thought I was going to buy reindeer, but no, I bought a projector instead. Do you remember Christmas vacation? Did you guys watch that? The National Lampoon's Christmas with Clark Griswold? I am Clark. Clarkette Griswold. I'm all about the lights.

Peter Anthony (36:59)

yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

Well, in my family, every year we watch Love Actually. I don't know if you know that. It's a Hugh Grant movie. It's a whole series of different, basically series of romances and relationships at Christmas time. And it's, I love that movie. really, I watch it. Yeah, that's, yeah, I really enjoy that one. Particularly when there's a...

Vanessa The Vivacious (37:08)

Okay, yeah. yeah.

Mm.

guess.

Yeah, he has a lot of great movies.

Peter Anthony (37:28)

There's one of the characters, his best friend marries the girl that he's in love with and he's got to make the video of the wedding and he's editing the video. Like you were just talking about editing. He's editing the video, looking at her and feelings. He just loves her so much. This is so hard to edit. And it goes to the house, knocks on the door and he holds up these cards about how he feels. And the last one is you to me are everything. I thought, wow, that's so cool.

Vanessa The Vivacious (37:33)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hmm. Yeah, that's lovely. Everyone wants that. I kind of well, I mean, to have a, you know, some sort of that. I mean, it feels like sometimes we think that we don't deserve that or, you know, we settle for less and that's not cool. So I found out.

Peter Anthony (37:58)

Wouldn't that be nice?

Yeah, and it gets that really tricky relationship thing where you think, well, would I rather be with them and not be completely happy or take the risk and be alone and maybe not find anybody else or not being as happy. They're tricky decisions, right? They're really tricky decisions. So your husband went off to be a Buddhist.

Vanessa The Vivacious (38:19)

Yeah, yeah. sure. Definitely.

Yeah, so he is he's been a Buddhist since like the 90s. And yeah, but it just, you know, when we were deciding, or he was deciding, say we, when he was deciding where he's gonna move, I said, you know, do go where you want to go, go where you really want to go. Because yeah, you can go home and live with your family, or you can go somewhere where you really want to go and live the life you really want. Because, you know, time is of the essence now, it always has been but now more so because

Peter Anthony (38:34)

Okay.

Vanessa The Vivacious (38:58)

Who knows what's going to happen next year or 10 years from now? So why not move to that perfect place that you want to live? So that's what he's doing.

Peter Anthony (39:06)

Yeah. And it was awesome that you both managed to do that amicably without a huge...

Vanessa The Vivacious (39:11)

yeah, I mean, because we were best friends first. So you'll always have that nurturing best friendship, you know, and thank God we're both not like toxic, angry people. there wasn't like a he said, she said, you know, thing. And yeah, it's very amicable.

Peter Anthony (39:17)

Yeah.

Yeah, it wouldn't work for your brand either, Vanessa. Like if you had these toxic breakups with people and talking about happiness and humanity, it wouldn't fit, would it?

Vanessa The Vivacious (39:32)

Right? Right? Yeah. Well, when you're younger, you do things. I'm not going to say I'm perfect, but when you're younger, you do some things. Yeah. yeah. Yeah, most definitely. I remember in my 20s taking a boyfriend to the bus station because he wasn't he wasn't very helpful. He lived in my apartment for about two years doing nothing.

Peter Anthony (39:35)

You

I know, it would be sort of counterbrand, wouldn't it?

Vanessa The Vivacious (39:54)

And eventually I got up the courage to say, yeah, you've got to go now. So I bought him a bus ticket and sent him home. And he was like, I don't have any money to call home. And I gave him a pocket full of change and said, here you go. See you later. So that was not very nice probably. But yeah, no. My current husband has, he has this thing about me and he says, I don't understand how you're so positive and how you could have led the life you led.

Peter Anthony (40:03)

Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (40:15)

because a lot of very bad things happened in the past when I was growing up versus, you know, being a young adult and coming from very adverse situations. And I tell him that, you know, music performance had a huge role in my life for that. And it helped heal and also helped me develop confidence, but also helping other people. Service to others has always been huge since I was a child. And so anything that happened to me,

It made no difference because helping other people and serving others and just, you know, being good and positive and helping people, that was everything to me. It still is. So yeah.

Peter Anthony (40:52)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that life of service, isn't it? Yeah. And did I freeze today?

Vanessa The Vivacious (40:57)

no, you're frozen. Yeah, you froze for a second. It was so good you froze.

Peter Anthony (41:03)

I froze for a Yeah, it's that idea of service, which I really love. if I just circle back to that coaching piece for a moment, believe that I work for the universe. Like I believe that, and when I work for the universe, the universe works for me. So like when I'm in that coaching chair, I put a lot of energy and effort and care into ensuring the people that I'm talking to.

Vanessa The Vivacious (41:14)

Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Peter Anthony (41:28)

get the best possible outcome they can and work out what their particular inner hero is. And I find that when I do that and I'm very intent on doing it and they do get a breakthrough, I find in my life a breakthrough happens too. It's like, I think when I work for the universe, when I'm kind and caring and considerate and full of humanity, then the universe works back for me. It's like a, it's a weird way that works. Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (41:30)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Like a soul food, you're feeding yourself, but you're also giving out universe snacks. Giving out universe snacks and receiving your own snacks. But yes, I'm hungry. Universe snacks and soul food. I totally, a little nosh, a little nosh. I totally get that. I totally understand that. Helping them feeds your soul. Humanity snacks.

Peter Anthony (41:55)

Yeah!

A universe snack. A little snack of humanity or of happiness or of love or of humanity stack. That'd be a good name for your, I probably named it already, have you?

Vanessa The Vivacious (42:17)

There you go. For what now?

Peter Anthony (42:21)

For your humanity series, you could call it Humanities Snack.

Vanessa The Vivacious (42:25)

well, I can make a little tiny baby 15 second humanity snacks. That's right. Wow. That's wonderful. Here's a snack. You look hungry. Right? That's different. Yeah, I like that. You know, once I was in Utah, and I met this man who worked for the BBC, and he's a cameraman. And I was talking to him about this documentary I was working on and how I was stuck. And he was like, that's simple. You just do the da da da. And I'm like, wow.

Peter Anthony (42:30)

Yeah, little snacks. Here's a little snack of humanity. Here's this, I like that because you don't think humanity and snack in the same sentence, do you? It's like a nice juxtaposition.

Vanessa The Vivacious (42:53)

Just reading random people and them working for the BBC telling you how to fix your film. That was the coolest thing ever.

Peter Anthony (42:59)

It's weird how you randomly bump into these people, isn't it? I remember being on a flight a few years ago and had a woman sitting alongside me and she was reading a book about exhuming dead bodies, right? And I thought, wow, this is really interesting. I said, I'm just curious, what's the book? And she said, yeah, what she was doing, she said she was traveling to Sarajevo in Europe. She was a forensic archeologist. was part of a team digging up bones.

Vanessa The Vivacious (43:02)

yeah.

Mmm.

Feel good reading.

Ow.

Mm-hmm.

Peter Anthony (43:25)

identifying cause of death and putting a case together to the Hague Commission on Crimes and War. And her name was Mia and she wrote a book called The Bone Woman. And I found her really, really, really interesting. We had a conversation, it was more like me listening to her story because my story wasn't anywhere near as interesting as hers about how she was.

Vanessa The Vivacious (43:31)

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

Peter Anthony (43:49)

She was traveling around the world as a forensic archaeologist and she always wanted to be a forensic archaeologist because she wanted to dig up people and write the wrongs of their death. And she got called, I thought, wow, what a bizarre calling. Imagine being a little girl and saying to your mom, mom, I think I'm going to dig up dead bodies and...

Vanessa The Vivacious (43:59)

Mm.

I work with dead people. My son said that to me and I said, okay.

Peter Anthony (44:11)

But it worked out well for her and for me, if you're out there listening. I was the guy in the aircraft that was so fascinated by your story all those years ago. That was

Vanessa The Vivacious (44:19)

That's crazy. Wow. The people you meet in the airport in the plane. I love that you said that you talk to people in the airport. I do the same thing. I've always done that. Always. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (44:28)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually like, I talk to them, but what I'm really curious about, I'm really curious about their lives. I don't want to sort of tell them about me. I'm curious about them. And I find such interesting stories from people. Wow, that's really, I find that really curious. think of people that think very differently than me. think, wow, like I'm nowhere near a forensic archaeologist. I'll never probably talk to one again. But I find that really interesting. That's how she's thinking.

Vanessa The Vivacious (44:36)

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Right. Hope you don't. There's not a good person to talk to. But yeah, I have this weird thing and I always come back to it. But when I was really young, I didn't talk to anyone. Just, I don't know why I was just by myself all the time. But I would go to the movies and I would go to the cafe afterward and I'd analyze the movie. So that tells me what I was going to do. Right. And I would sit there and I'd watch people.

Everywhere I went, I would watch people and I would just watch them interact with each other, whether it was kids or adults. I just watched them and observe. And it taught me so much more about people than I could ever learn from reading a book. then, you know, talking to people as an interviewer, you, you grow more and you start interacting and hearing all of these stories. But it all goes back to when I was little, that that's what I just did inherently was just watch and observe because I wanted to learn more about the human condition. And that was how I spent my free time.

Peter Anthony (45:45)

Yeah. And it's it, guess that's one of the reasons why podcasts have boomed so much over the past few years because, because we're missing, we're missing conversation. We're missing that sort of human connection and conversation and a real, like real non-contrived conversation. And it's, it's great. It's great being part of them and great listening to them when they're done well. Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (45:50)

yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. for sure. For me, I started doing it in 2012. So a way long time ago, back when back when it was all about NPR and this American life, I was obsessed with this American life. yeah. Mm hmm. And Ira Glass, he's he's a hero. And so I remember and I wonder if I have it. Hang on. Because I had it. There's I have a microphone. a very teeny tiny one. Looks like a Q-tip. Let me see if I have it.

Peter Anthony (46:08)

Wow. Wow.

National Public Radio, NPR, yeah, yeah, okay, I NPR.

Vanessa The Vivacious (46:30)

No, I don't. But I need to frame it. So it's this very tiny microphone. Looks like a Q-tip with a little three and a half cord down the bottom, right? And you plug it into your computer and that was the microphone for the podcast. And there was this tiniest little thing and the quality was the worst you've ever heard in your whole life. But I would record on, I think, a brand platform called Spreaker. It's still there to this day.

Peter Anthony (46:47)

Ha.

Vanessa The Vivacious (46:55)

But that was my first podcast was talking about whatever happened that day and reading weird news. And I did it because, I had so much to say and no one to talk to. And my husband didn't want to hear it. So I was like, I'm just going to put it out there. And I did that since 2012.

Peter Anthony (47:06)

haha

Wow. Wow. Have you got any final thoughts for listeners, Vanessa, like people listening about humanity or happiness that you'd like, like I thought you'd like to leave with people?

Vanessa The Vivacious (47:27)

Hmm. It's a great question. I asked the same question on my show. You know, and I, you know, you have no idea how nice it is to be interviewed and do the interviews, but it's also nice, breath of fresh air to do, you know, opposite. It's always great not edit it for once. My final thought would be that we are more complicated and complex than we think we are. And it's so beautiful that we are. And if you could take a moment to

Peter Anthony (47:31)

Do you?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (47:54)

reflect on yourself, but also other people and think of others. And like you said earlier, listen to people, but really listen to them. Then you will find that you are far more enriched with every single person that you meet than you could ever become on your own. And so I would encourage people to talk to others and listen to them and to, you know, find ways of interaction, whether it be at the airport or

in a bookstore or at the park, but talk to each other and share these positive stories about humanity so we can remember that there is good humanity out there and that good things are possible for all of us. That's what I would say. And also be vivacious because that's my thing is vivacious. So don't forget to be vivacious. But yes, I really hope that your folks will follow me on the platforms, but also follow the show because it's...

Peter Anthony (48:38)

But this is the vivacious.

Vanessa The Vivacious (48:48)

It's not yet released, but the Humanity 2.0 podcast is on all the platforms so we can take subscripts, followers, and then my ad, Vanessa the Vivacious on all the platforms. see a ton of wackadoodle stuff. So definitely follow.

Peter Anthony (49:00)

And I'll put all those links in the show notes for the guys so can find them, find them really easily.

Vanessa The Vivacious (49:06)

Yeah, it's been the best hour, but I have to ask you, so hang on, because you're a workshop person or a speaker or both.

Peter Anthony (49:10)

Yeah, sure, sure.

I'm a workshop person, a speaker and a coach. I do all three of them, yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (49:23)

Okay, so I find it fascinating and the people that do that work, I have to always ask them, why did you go into this area? What do you receive from it? Like, what is your purpose for being in that space?

Peter Anthony (49:37)

Which space, the speaking space, like the big room space? Well, when I was a kid, even when I was at school, I was asked to talk to the assembly of the other students. I've always felt absolutely the most comfortable in front of the most people, particularly if they're strangers. I love it. I feel completely centered. I feel like I'm very present. And I really love being in that space.

Vanessa The Vivacious (49:40)

Mm. Yeah.

Peter Anthony (50:04)

So it's a sense of comfort. And it's also, I guess, it's also a call to Judy where I feel like I would like to leave the people's lives better off before my speech or before my talk to them than they were beforehand. So when they walk into the room, I could be at a conference and there could be 10 speakers at this conference. And my goal is to think, I think very serious about who these people are, what message I can give them that leaves them better off because

Vanessa The Vivacious (50:18)

Mm-hmm.

Peter Anthony (50:29)

quite selfishly, think if I do that, I'll feel great. And I also know the universe will return a favor in some bizarre way. But it's a huge blast. It's standing in a room, with a thousand people or more in a room and talking to them. You feel alive, Vanessa. You feel alive. I think about it now, I feel tingly. I love that sort of tingly, sort of slightly excited feeling.

Vanessa The Vivacious (50:39)

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. I do. know it. I remember when you were in school and you read to the whole class and you know that everyone is listening to every word that you're saying, there's that really odd electricity and also being on stage too. Same thing, nothing like it.

Peter Anthony (51:06)

Yeah. Yes. And it also amps up the pressure on you to deliver value. Because if I'm being flown somewhere to talk at a conference, like it could be China, Japan, could be the Bahamas, I've spoken to the Bahamas, like all over the place, Austin, Texas, all over the place. If someone's flying you there to deliver, it puts the pressure on you to do a really, really great job to make that content.

Vanessa The Vivacious (51:16)

Hmm.

Yeah.

Peter Anthony (51:34)

I'll make those, well, what I do is I tell stories. I've got to make those stories really powerful and really strong and really resonate with the folks that are there. And that's, as you know, it all becomes word of mouth. And if you do a great job, the conference organizers will get you to do another gig somewhere else. Yeah, yeah. That's one of the reasons I got to travel so much. Because I really wanted to travel when I was younger, but I was too poor to afford the flights, right? So I thought, well, what I'll do is I'll run workshops and speak, and then people will fly me around the world and I haven't got to pay for the...

Vanessa The Vivacious (51:37)

Hmm.

Yeah, that's wonderful.

Hmm

Yeah. Win-win.

Peter Anthony (52:03)

I haven't got a gig. One of my best ever gigs, got a gig in Cairo, Egypt. I thought, wow, this is so cool. So I'm in Cairo, Egypt and I'm at this conference and I extended the time afterwards. And my wife and I got a chance to see like all the Egyptian things at the pyramids and sphinxes and all and the Nile River and all that sort of stuff. think, wow, this is so cool. And this is all off the back of.

Vanessa The Vivacious (52:11)

Mm.

Yeah.

Amazing.

Peter Anthony (52:29)

me just working so hard at these conferences. Yeah, it's very cool.

Vanessa The Vivacious (52:31)

sure. Yeah. yeah. I love that. I love that you get to not only enrich other people, but also enrich yourself as well on your off time.

Peter Anthony (52:41)

You do. And they also think if you've been flown in, you must be good. It's sort of like a bit of a, it also puts more pressure on you, right? So it's sort of like a double edged sword, but it's a great way to travel. That's a great way to travel. the bizarre thing too, is what I found is the people are the same all over the world. I could be in the Bahamas, I could be in Austin, Texas, I could be in Cairo, I could be in Manchester, East Cobride in Scotland. I could be in Beijing or I could be anywhere. And the people are exactly the same.

Vanessa The Vivacious (52:46)

Yeah. Right.

I have.

Mm-hmm.

How do you mean they're exactly the same?

Peter Anthony (53:11)

They're exactly the same. They're all looking for the same thing. They're looking for the same thing. that's what I find. I find we're much more alike than we are different in that sense. if you're going to a conference and wanting a message, the people in the room are more alike in everywhere in the world and they are different. They become more alike. Individually, they're very different, but as a group, they're more alike, if that makes any sense. Yeah.

Vanessa The Vivacious (53:13)

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm. definitely. Yeah. People are awesome.

Peter Anthony (53:35)

I used to think, who am I to be going to like, getting to Shanghai and talking at this conference? think, well, who am I not to? Because we have this thing called tall poppy syndrome where we don't want to sort of talk ourselves up too much. This is Australians, right? We sort of like to sort of pull back a bit. Whereas I find Americans get the complete opposite, though. It's called a tall poppy syndrome, which means don't be a tall poppy. Otherwise people will cut you off. The poppies will get cut off.

Vanessa The Vivacious (53:41)

Yeah.

Did you say tall poppy syndrome? What is that?

Like a poppy flower?

What is a poppy? Is it a flower? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Peter Anthony (54:02)

because poppies have got like long stems and big heads and people will cut you off. don't get a tall poppy. Tall poppy is like, you know, keep yourself low, like don't talk yourself up, like don't talk a big game, you know, be like, be humble. But I find, I go say West Coast US is the complete opposite.

Vanessa The Vivacious (54:15)

Right.

no, we're all poppies. You have to be popular. So yeah, Poppy, popular.

Peter Anthony (54:22)

Everyone's poppies. So we had to learn that, we had to learn, like we're much more self-deprecating and more, I taught to be more humble about, yeah, yeah. It's called a tall poppy syndrome, that's what we call it. don't know whether that's a psychological term, where like if you're tall poppy, you'll get cut off. Yes.

Vanessa The Vivacious (54:32)

Yeah.

Mmm, more shrubbery-like. That's interesting.

I love it.

And now when I see poppies, I'll think of you. I'll think of Australia.

Peter Anthony (54:49)

You think of poppies, you think of poppies. This is bizarre. We can talk like this and we can find so much in common because we're talking about humanity and happiness. And I strongly encourage folks to check out your work. I think it'll be very worthwhile. have before we met today, I had a good look through the happiness pieces and it's really well worthwhile dipping into. And I'm sure this humanity piece will be really, really worthwhile too.

Vanessa The Vivacious (55:14)

Yes, yes, thank you so much.

Peter Anthony (55:16)

to dip into, absolute pleasure. Vanessa, thank you for being a guest on Growth Tails today.

Vanessa The Vivacious (55:23)

Thank you.

Peter Anthony (55:23)

G'day, I'm Peter Anthony. Welcome to Growth Tails. I'm sure happiness is towards the top of your list of things you'd like to achieve, either daily, weekly, or at least in your lifetime. And today's guests spent four years interviewing thousands of people on are they happy and if they are, what made them happy? Really fascinating stuff. This is also core in my coaching too, because I find when I'm coaching people,

One of the core things they're after primarily is I'd like to be happier, happier at work, happier in my relationships and happier in my world. And if that's you, reach out to me for coaching at peter at peteranthonyconsulting.com. But Vanessa Yountz is an expert in happiness. She did spend four years interviewing thousands of people as part of a global happiness project. She's now working on a humanity project. So we look forward to seeing that.

All of the details for her will be in the show notes. But without further ado, let's learn more about happiness with Vanessa.

Let's take a short break from our conversation with Vanessa to talk about my coaching at Peter at PeterAnthonyConsulting.com. If you're keen to have coaching on happiness and its causes for you with a strong positive psychology bent, which is what I use, I help you understand your particular unique personality, help you understand your purpose and the path that you can get there. And when I say get there, get there to being a more happy, more fulfilled individual.

If that's something that you'd like to find out more about, reach out to me, Peter at PeterAnthonyConsulting.com. Meantime, let's get back to our conversation with Vanessa.

loved that conversation with Vanessa and I hope you did too. I love the fact that after interviewing thousands of people over four years and being part of this global project, she found that happiness is subjective. It's very unique to each individual and it's likely to be unique to you too. Also loved how she's now finished that happiness project and she's keen to work now on humanity as a project or humanity 2.0.

I'm looking forward to seeing that. If you'd like to reach out to Vanessa and find out more about that happiness project and the humanity project, all the links are in the show notes. If you'd like coaching on your individual happiness, how to find what it is unique for you and how to get more of it in your life, reach out to me at peter at peteranthonyconsulting.com. In the meantime, I'll see you next time on Growth Tails.